About women ...
Paul Elam posts on
Spearhead
We live in two realms with women. The first is that
of pair bonding; our romantic connection. The other is political. I have a
very different set of desires from women in each realm.
I wrote an
essay on what I want from women in relationships. I won’t hog this area by
posting it all here, but for those interested here it is:
What I
Want from a Woman
As to the political realm, or what I want from
women in general, the answer is nothing. For in the current state of
affairs, they have nothing to give.
Sorry, with all respect to some
of the women here and other places that offer support to men’s causes and
are willing to take the laudable action of renouncing feminism, they are
the infinitesimal exception. And it is not because the others even really
support feminism, but because by an large women are in possession of only
transient and fleeting moments of insight into what they themselves want
and need.
I have met women, and I mean lots of them, that even in
their 40’s and 50’s were not ever totally sure of their own sexuality. I
have heard some refer to this as women’s sexuality being more fluid. That
may be true, but it only points to the reality that everything else about
them appears to be fluid as well.
I have talk to scores of men with
the universal experience of wanting to pull their own hair out from the
frustration of giving women what they say they want, only to find out that
they really wanted something else, and then giving them that “something
else” only to get the same result.
My advice to men in the scores
of men’s groups I used to facilitate was to more or less ignore what women
said they wanted. I told them to figure out what their women needed to the
best of their ability and to be prepared to hear them complain anyway. And
I advised them also to just learn to take the complaints with a grain of
salt instead of internalizing them. Or better yet, to ask themselves to
reconsider their involvement in such a slanted arrangement.
With
this in mind, asking a woman “Do you want gender peace?” is not that much
different than asking her if she would rather have flowers or candy. Once
she gets either one, she will find she wants something else.
I use
kis as an example. I have enjoyed most of her posts by the way, sans the
ex bashing, but she presents a glowing example of what I am talking about.
Her sexual fantasies change dramatically depending on exogenous
circumstance. When she is feeling like a failure, she is turned on by one
thing. When she is feeling empowered, something else floats her boat. And
there were other examples she gave all of which point to the fact that
whatever was going on in her life had a profound effect on not just her
feelings about those circumstances, but about her identity itself all the
way down to what she found sexually appealing.
And that defines
women for me. They are creatures not of solidly internalized identity, but
of self-concept (and desires) that shift with the wind, or the last
episode of Oprah. The women that are exceptions to this are rare enough to
be inconsequential in the scheme of things.
I think it also has to
be said that in order to get gender peace that women must mature in ways
in which they may not be capable, or more accurately, willing.
A
concept as grand and noble as gender peace will require change, sacrifice
and a dogmatic consistency of values to fully realize from both sexes. I
wish I did, but I don’t see it coming from a generation of women who
embraced feminism, but bemoan the loss of chivalry; who demand equality
and special treatment simultaneously; who say men are dogs and then
pretend to be in search of a good man, and when given any or all of these
things are still not satisfied.
So, in my opinion, if there ever is
to be gender peace, it will come from men. And the only way to get there
is for men to totally and finally renounce the old paradigm, that of
chivalry and traditionalism, and to give women what they need.
And
what they desperately need, though it is surely not what they want, is
equality. They need to pay their own way, carry their own weight, fall on
their own faces and get back up without our help. The need to register for
selective service, give up alimony, valentines day, jewelry and other
things as expressions of love.
They need to accept that men should
be able to unilaterally renounce parental obligations during the same
period of time a woman can legally do the same via abortion. We need to
fill our death chambers on death row with women who have committed capitol
crimes. We need to imprison them for every false police report and for
every lie in court to get a restraining order.
The list is longer,
but that will do for starters.
And when we have fulfilled those
objectives, and in doing so give women the equality they so often lament
being withheld from them, we might well be on our way to peace. For when
they are forced to live in the world of men, they might well start
developing the internal controls and consistency it takes to survive in
such a world. Perhaps when they find, once and for all, that equality with
men is a huge step down for women, their expectations of us will shift as
well.
As it is, we just give women whatever they say they want at
the moment and then watch our watches till they want something else.
There will never be any peace in that. |
responding to a call by a woman for men to "lead" women in the
fight against feminism ...
Zed posts on
Spearhead
But, what a lot of men are saying is that it is not
our fight any more – it’s women’s fight, now.
I threw this
out there when anoukange brought it up, in hopes that it would spark some
rousing discussion. It seems to have done that.
There is a
generational problem here. As Arthur says, those of us who have been
fighting this long enough are opening up big cans of quit.
It’s all well
and good for younger women to say “lead us” and blame us for not leading
as an excuse for them to continue to do nothing. But, women did not need
men to lead them when they declared war on men, and women certainly had no
problems at all following those female leaders.
The fact of
the matter is that for a lot of men it is too late. Western women really
don’t have anything to offer us any more, and if a man is still interested
in women, then there are other cultures which have not been poisoned by
feminism where he doesn’t have to undertake a cultural rehab project
before he can get on with his life. For those men, John Nada has a step by
step plan that any man can use to get out.
Now, it may be unfortunate for
younger women to have inherited the scorched earth left behind by their
feminist mothers, older sisters, aunts, and the rest of the past couple of
generations of women, but no more unfortunate than living with them has
been for us men.
I really don’t think it matters any more what men want from
women. The problem is the legal system and no relationship can take place
which is not under the jurisdiction of that legal system. A man can only
feel as safe with a woman as his degree of trust in her, and if there is
one thing women have proven with their behavior over the past 40+ years,
it is that men just cannot trust them.
So, I would say that women aren’t
going to have a lot of male allies in their future fight against the
sisterhood. Men have devised ways to protect themselves against most of
the legal imbalances and the behavior of psychopathic individuals. We have
either rebuilt the lives that a woman destroyed, or had enough misgivings
along the way to not allow a woman into a position to do so.
Feminism is
women’s problem now, not so much men’s any more. The last of the men
raised under the old code of gentlemanly behavior and “chivalry” are now
all past their mating years. We have “fought the good fight” all our adult
lives – against mostly women and their mangina allies. Many of us really
cannot see anything left to fight for.
The challenge for those of us in
the stage of “third life” is more contemplative, philosophical, and to
teach what we can of what we have learned as a result of our lives to
those younger people who are willing to learn.
As Paul Elam
says, the real answer is true equality – a complete end to all special
treatment of women, and for them to share equally in carrying the burdens
of the civilization, not just going along for the ride and reaping its
benefits.
We wish you girls a lot of luck. |
What do western men want from women these days? ...
posted by finsalscollons on
Spearhead
What men want from women? Irrelevant. Any society in
history has been trying to answer the question “what women want from men”.
Men are programmed to please women and not the other way around, the same
way mothers are programmed to please children and not the other way
around. It is only evolution in practice. Women control men, always have,
always will.
DNA studies showed that aboout 80% of women of yore
managed to reproduce as opposed to 40% of men. Women have always been
hypergamous [i.e. they only want to get involved with alpha males] and the
few millenia of monogamous marriage have not changed their basic nature.
In order to tame the hypergamous female sexuality, massive cultural
artifacts have been required. It has been required the brainwashing of
women (religion, “be a good girl”). It has also been required an universal
social stigma against hypergamous behaviour (illegitimate children being
labelled as “bastards”, promiscuous female behaviour being labelled as
“slut”, stigma against single moms). It has been required that women were
not able to economically support themselves, in order to force them to
forfeit the excitement of an alpha cad in favor of a more stable beta
provider, in order to make ordinary men attractive for women.
On
the other hand, men were pressured into marriage in an early age where
their hormones were high and were willing to trade a life of economic
support for a bit of sex. Men were brainwashed to think marriage was the
only honorable option. The fact that sex was taboo was a way for these men
not to know that sex dries up in marriage so they entered marriage
thinking they have secured a steady supply of sex (I think Erasmus told
that “men enter marriage dreaming of white sheets”). Everybody thought
that the neighbor was having more sex than himself (see “How to Make Love
to the Same Person for the Rest of Your Life”)
All this cultural
brainwashing was to make women want a beta provider. The answer in the
good old days to the question “what women want from men?” was a “good
husband and father”. But this was not the true nature of women, only
result of massive brainwashing for millenia.
All these cultural
artifacts have been dismantled the past few decades and now the answer to
the question “what women want from men?” is “an alpha if this is possible,
if it is not, then a share of an alpha”. This is the basic female nature:
hypergamous and has an evolutive explanation, as all of you know.
So when women whine about not finding men and about men being afraid of
commitment, many MRAs take a perverse pleasure saying “they are reaping
the consequence of their behavior”, “let them rot”, etc. I myself have
been victim of this schadenfreude.
What many men are not aware of
is that women whining about the lack of commitment are not whining about
the lack of commitment from us, but about the lack of commitment from Mr.
Alpha. When people are in their twenties and thirties, there are more men
than women, so every woman could have a husband (if she lowers her
unrealistic standards). But they prefer to be with an alpha who is pumping
and dumping her than with a beta husband.
So all this fantasies
about women rotting and discovering that their refusal of men have taken
them to a single life and then abandoning the gender war and becoming
traditional women are only fantasies. Women are in the exact point they
want to be. They always have, they always will, because biology has given
an enormous amount of power to the female of every species. Of course,
women whining about everything (it’s their unconscious way to make other
people work for them to help their offspring), but they don’t prefer being
married to the current state of affairs and they don’t want to go back to
the fifties (as opposed to the idealization of the fifties, with an alpha
in any household).
What are the solutions for men then? On a
collective level, the solution is the inevitable overcoming of matriarchal
Western society by patriarchal societies. Every time a society becomes
matriarchal, it is overcome by patriarchal societies, which are more
efficient in reproduction. This happened with ancient Rome, with Sparta,
with Babilonia (read “Sex and culture”). Europe will be Islamic in one
century. I don’t know how things will be in USA but the future is
patriarchal (right-wing, Latino, you name it, but patriarchal).
Resurrecting the patriarchal nature of Western society is futile now. Once
the stigma against hypergamous nature is gone, it is impossible to
resurrect it because it would take a conscious decision of the vast
majority of the elite to “brainwash” the masses. This is not going to
happen. Brainwashing is imposed by the culture but not choosen.
Furthermore, the elite has interest in the current state of affairs and
most elite males are alpha and having the time of their life with all
these informal harems.
On a personal level, there are three
solutions from men. Learning Game and pumping and dumping women (”the PUA
way”), leaving women alone and find meaning in other pursuits (”the MGTOW
way”) and expatting. I have expatted and I am happy of having done so. I
have lived in Central America for ten years.
Don’t be fooled about
all these siren songs about non-Western women being better than Western
women. The basic instincts are exactly the same and non-Western women also
look for alphas. They also prefer to be in an alpha harem than to be in a
beta marriage. Believe me: I have know them for ten years. Women are women
everywhere and their hypergamous nature is biological not cultural. The
difference is:
(a) I was a beta in America but I am an alpha here
and I can choose between a harem and/or a traditional wife.
(b) Laws
are not that stacked against men and many women are still brainwashed into
being a “good girl” (this is rapidly disappearing because of Western
influence). So non-Western women are sweeter, more traditional and behave
better than Western women. But, in the core, all women have the same
nature and the faster men understand that the less pain they will have
when they see their illusions being broken by a woman. |
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